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GUMWARS

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A Brief History of Central Banking

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Who is to blame for the current econonmic crisis?

  • George W. Bush
    0%
  • Democrats
    10%
  • Republicans
    10%
  • China
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  • Federal Reserve
    52%
  • Corporate Interests
    29%

Total Votes: 21

Remember, remember the fifth of November Gunpowder, treason and plot. I see no reason, why gunpowder treason Should ever be forgot. Remember, remember, the fifth of November, Gunpowder, treason and plot! A stick or a stake for Damned Reserves' sake Will you please to give us a fagot If you can't give us one, we'll take two; The better for us and the worse for you!

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The most dangerous thing to a free republic is the power of greed. From the birth of our nation till the present day, our way of life, our liberty has been under constant attack. The threat was not from the imperial overreach of the British Empire. It was not the moral quandary of slavery or the peril posed by fear itself. It would likewise be foolish to think that a single religion, even the morally twisted shadow of one, is a credible threat to the will of a free people.

The greatest foe our nation has ever faced is the power held in the hands of the global banking cartel, a.k.a., the planetary central banking system.

In this writing I hope to elaborate on the truly unfathomable and utterly maligned principles that is represented by the Federal Reserve. I will discuss the history of the central banks in the United States, some of the flawed theories that govern the modus operandi of this select elite, and finally I will offer some insight into the actions we see today and why it will all fail to stem the crisis.

The History of Central Banking in the United States

The history of the Federal Reserve dates back much further than the bill signed into law by Woodrow Wilson. It predates the civil war and, in fact, was brought into existence while George Washington was still in office as president.

In 1791 President Washington signed the Bank Bill into law which created the First Bank of the United States. This was a creation of Alexander Hamilton and was primarily designed along the same lines of our current central bank. It was an entity that was not an extension of the federal government; it was a private bank. It created the currency and issued it to the government in the form of loans, with interest. It also instituted fractional reserve lending, a process by which the bank actually dispenses more money than it holds in its vault based on the faulty logic that depositors will never simultaneously request their funds, en masse.

Thankfully, our government in 1791 only allowed the central bank to hold it's charter for 20 years. In 1811, the charter expired and the First Bank of the United States ceased to operate. Some blame fractional reserve lending as the culprit that sank it while others believe that partisan politics caused the charter to fail. Considering the United States was new to the brilliant "boom and bust" business cycle (please feel free to add as much sarcasm to that statement as you are comfortable with), my personal belief is that the charter failed to find support because many Americans did not appreciate a bank that could distort and influence the free markets with private interests driving it.

But we Americans are truly gluttons for punishment and only five years later we decided to have another go at it with the Second Bank of the United States. So, in 1816 this second bank was signed into law, following the same structure as the First Bank of the United States. The motivation was real enough, the US was struggling to recover from the losses incurred during the War of 1812 and at first the new central bank made good on it's charter. For three years following its creation agriculture exploded in America. Much of this was due to a very damaged agricultural sector in Europe and a subsequent high demand for food stuffs from the US (resultant of the Napoleonic Wars). However, this was not to last. The Panic of 1819 exposed the central bank for the fraud that it was:

Austrian school economists view the nationwide recession that resulted from the Panic of 1819 as the first failure of expansionary monetary policy. This explanation is based on the "Austrian theory" of the business cycle. Government borrowed heavily to finance the War of 1812, which caused tremendous strain on the banks' reserves of specie and led inevitably to a suspension of specie payments in 1814. The suspension of the obligation to redeem greatly spurred the establishment of new banks and the expansion of bank note issues. This inflation of money encouraged unsustainable investments to take place. It soon became clear the monetary situation was bad, and the Second Bank of the United States was forced to call a halt to its expansion and launch a painful process of contraction. There was a wave of bankruptcies, bank failures, and bank runs; prices dropped and wide-scale urban unemployment began. By 1819, land measures in the U.S. had also reached 3,500,000 acres, and many Americans did not have enough money to pay off to their loans.

[source: Ohio History Central courtesy of Wikipedia]

Sound familiar? Keep this passage in mind, I will expand on the points offered a little later.

Following the Panic of 1819 and the three year long depression that occurred in its wake caused opinion of the central bank to turn quite negative. In 1830, with Andrew Jackson at the station of the presidency, a full blown war effort was assembled to take down the bank before the charter expired in 1836. Jackson's efforts were successful and in 1833 tax revenue was diverted from the central bank to state banks, effectively killing the institution. The Second Bank of the United States closed its doors in 1841.

Now, the effects of shutting down the central bank were not good. In 1837 yet another panic struck the country but it could be argued that this had less to do with the fall of the central bank and more attributable to the monetary policies of Andrew Jackson. The culprit was the massive amount of bank notes that had flooded the market. Jackson's remedy was to drastically reduce the amount of currency in circulation by raising land prices. The effects were needed but still quite devastating. Again, keep this in mind, it is a point we'll revisit.

Following the closing of the second bank, America entered uncharted waters during a period known as the Free-Banking Era (or wildcat banking, 1837-1862). No central bank existed and all sorts of problems cropped up. Money supply was extremely volatile and the value of currency changed drastically from bank to bank. The average lifespan of a bank during this period was about five years with most failing as a result of being unable to redeem its notes.

The central government, in an effort to add stability to the system and fund the Union's war effort in the Civil War, implemented the National Banking Act (1863-1913). This created a series of federally regulated banks that were, in theory, supposed to challenge the state's banking centers with less volatile currency and a lower rate of failure. These "national" banks were still privately owned and were really set up in the same manner as our current central banks, albeit with much less influence or macro policy capability.

State banks issued currency based on precious metals compared to national banks which issued currency based on Treasury securities. The reason state banks had such volatility in its currencies was because the fractional reserve ratio changed from bank to bank, which caused the amount of currency in circulation to vary constantly. Typically these fluctuations were localized and if a recessionary event took place, it too was localized and not a nation level event.

National banks, however, were subject to much greater levels of distortion. Since the currency issued by the national banks were backed by ever changing Treasury securities, constant valuation changes throughout the banking system resulted in never-ending margin calls, interest rate spikes, loan recalls, and general widespread market distortions. State banks remained throughout the National Banking Era highly competitive and usually the bank of choice.

But everything started to change in 1907, with the Banker's Panic.

This was an important event in the history of central banks because it provided the final impetus to propel our nation towards the establishment of a second government. I call central banking the second government because it has far more control over the economy than the official government. It is comprised of members that do not answer to the people, and indeed, are so far removed from the plight of the average American to be considered royalty when cast in the light of history. But I digress. In order to gain a better understanding of the events that surround us today, you need to look very closely at the circumstances that led to the collapse of the stock market in 1907.

The panic started when three men hatched a plan to corner the stock of a copper producer, United Copper. The idea was simple: Corner the stock and then force the short sellers to return the shares they had borrowed. The "squeeze" would force the price up and the three men would make a fortune. What sweetened the deal was that one of the three men actually owned the company in question, making it a near certainty that they could acquire the largest block of stock with ease. However, the plan misfired. They overestimated their ability to corner the market and the short sellers were able to meet the call. The price of the stock collapsed making all three of the men, and the banks that backed them, instantly insolvent. A contagion of fear and mistrust surrounded any institution that had dealings with these men which resulted in a massive bleedout of liquidity. Soon, banks that were healthy and had no associations with the aforementioned villains found themselves being purged of funds by scared investors and depositors.

This panic continued until J.P Morgan, and a number of other private investors including the US Government, began injecting huge sums of money into the financial networks of Wall Street. Even this did not stop the system from crashing until Theodore Roosevelt allowed several institutions to merge, against the anti-trust legislation, which restored the shaken confidence of the market participants.

Following these events our leaders of business and government thought it best to adopt the European system of central banks which seemed, at the time, capable of meeting the demands placed on the system when liquidity became scarce. For additional Newsvine reading concerning the history of the Federal Reserve from 1913 on, please visit a great article on the history of the Fed.

Now, I understand that this article has been very brief considering the span of history covered. My point behind this writing isn't to expand your knowledge of American financial history (which I hope has been added to somewhat, but feel free to read more about it) but rather to point out some trends that do show the direction that we are headed.

The Boom and Bust Business Cycle

Looking back on the history of the US, we have been plagued by at least eight significant financial sector panics:

  1. The Panic of 1797, caused by the central banks of Europe
  2. The Panic of 1819, caused by the Second Bank of the United States through excessive monetary expansion
  3. The Panic of 1837, caused in part by the collapse of the Second Bank of the US, Andrew Jackson reducing the amount of currency in circulation, and the Bank of England raising interest rates
  4. The Panic of 1857, caused by corporate corruption, slavery based land speculation, and monetary inflation
  5. The Panic of 1869, caused by criminal commodities manipulation, namely an attempt to corner gold
  6. The Panic of 1873, caused by government intervention; removal of silver as a medium of exchange resulting in contraction of the monetary supply, railroad collapse, and mining sector collapse
  7. The Panic of 1893, caused by railroad overcapacity which triggered multiple bank failures, a run on gold, and multiple railroad failures
  8. The Panic of 1907, caused by debt based speculation, corruption, and hyper-expansive monetary policy

The reoccurring theme in the boom and bust cycle is monetary expansion, i.e., credit/inflation, followed by contraction. During the expansion phase, risk signals become diluted because cash is easy to acquire with little or no premium attached. It is a simple supply vs. demand issue demonstrated: The more money in circulation, the lower the rate of interest, making businesses more inclined to operate on debt rather than equity. Eventually, overcapacity arrives usually at the same time inflation starts to settle in. Consumers, including businesses, become saturated and overextended. Additionally, as risk signals become muted and distorted, speculation increases leading to eventual malinvestment. At this point all that is needed is one bad bet to trigger a panic.

The idea that a group of banks, private investors or a central bank can inject liquidity into a free market system that has been disrupted by too much liquidity is a foolish notion. Granted, it can work for a while. Looking at the history of our nation following the establishment of the Federal Reserve is evidence enough that intervention will work for a while. The end result is more debt, which requires higher service payments, which in turn requires more borrowing, and this cycle continues until confidence flatlines.

The Greenspan Liquidity Experiment

During the past decade or so we've been ringside to the biggest economic experiment ever devised. This science project was conducted without our knowledge or consent. It was carried out by the aforementioned "second" government that I described earlier. Following the disaster of 9-11, Alan Greenspan opened the cash spigot and flooded out system with liquidity. This extremely loose fiscal policy continued from the beginning of 2002 until late in 2004. I call this the Liquidity Experiment.

What the goal of this experiment was is hard to gauge. You could say that the hopes were to hyper-stimulate the economy to avoid the crash we were headed into. Possibly the end result could have been, had the investments been more sound, a nation whose infrastructure was bulletproof. Had the massive amounts of liquidity been poured into something that would have truly helped our nation, such as energy independence or transportation reform, then it is very possible we would be lauding the efforts of Mr. Greenspan.

However, if history serves to prove anything it is that the banking sector seems to be incapable of serving the interests of the public. Furthermore, central banks seem to only exaggerate, mute, or obfuscate market signals. At nearly every crossroad of financial panic the very institutions that caused the malfunction can only ask for more power in order to avoid the next bust.

Final Thoughts

It is my opinion, contrary to the beliefs of many, that a truly free market can exist. It cannot, however, thrive when institutions like the Federal Reserve are present. It is a classic conflict of interest that an institution which, in theory, is master of oversight, policy, and macro level influences is also staffed by the same entities it holds sway over. My reference to this being our second government is not an exaggeration. In fact, I would easily go so far as to say that these are our true masters. Even our government borrows from it, paying interest, and all decisions regarding the economy are ultimately decided by it.

You could draw the frightening conclusion that, as Ludwig von Mises remarked, if all wars are the effect of economic causality, and the Federal Reserve is the final word in economic policy; would it be at all unfathomable that our current predicament is not the result of failed democratic or republican policy, but the failure of our Constitution dating back to December 23, 1913.

For those of you who do not know the significance of that date it is when our Congress abdicated it's responsibility under Article 1, Sec 8, 4th clause of the Constitution of the United States.

  • 18 Votes
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8.1
4.1
{"commentId":3436831,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

I will hammer this point until people get it:

BOTH MCCAIN AND OBAMA WORK FOR THE SAME INTERESTS

YOUR VOTE FOR EITHER CANDIDATE RESULTS IN THE SAME INTERESTS STAYING IN POWER

When you're done trying to be heard in the hate filled echo chambers of partisan rhetoric, please feel free to join me in the real world.

{"commentId":3436831,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:43 PM EDT
{"commentId":4287130,"authorDomain":"shoag999"}

"BOTH MCCAIN AND OBAMA WORK FOR THE SAME INTERESTS

YOUR VOTE FOR EITHER CANDIDATE RESULTS IN THE SAME INTERESTS STAYING IN POWER"

A very well written article and helped me clarify some things in my mind regarding the Federal Reserve.  Also, I agree with the above quote. 

{"commentId":4287130,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"shoag999"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Thu Dec 4, 2008 10:03 AM EST
{"commentId":4338462,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

You agree, but apparently the memo didn't get to the rest of America.  Welcome to the depression everyone!

{"commentId":4338462,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    #1.2 - Sun Dec 7, 2008 11:45 PM EST
    Reply
    {"commentId":3437434,"authorDomain":"TheEtruscan"}

    Actually some Jews learned that "provisioning" warring factions is very profitable during the 600 year struggle between Muslims and Christians for the control of Spain. When the Catholic Monarchs expelled them from Spain in 1492 they moved to Holland making it a world banking center and then moved on to England with William and Mary's Glorious revolution in the process founding the mother of all central banks, the Bank of England and funding all the European wars from the 1600s onward.

    Also a good source is Bill Still's The Money Masters => http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

    {"commentId":3437434,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"TheEtruscan"}
    • 4 votes
    Reply#2 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:24 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3437581,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

    Not at all surprising considering the influence the Rothschild family has had over the central banks of Europe...for the past two centuries.

    Broken windows stimulate the economy, and war breaks a lot of windows.

    {"commentId":3437581,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    • 2 votes
    #2.1 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:36 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":3437461,"authorDomain":"truth-be-told"}

    Great Article Keep It Up

    {"commentId":3437461,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"truth-be-told"}
    • 5 votes
    Reply#3 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:26 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3437484,"authorDomain":"everyonesacritic"}

    We have to inform as many people as possible. Hopefully "We The People" Can Bring About Real Change!

    {"commentId":3437484,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"everyonesacritic"}
    • 4 votes
    Reply#4 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:28 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3439019,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    gumwars...you sound just like lou dobbs and i like him...thank you for the enlightenment...

    {"commentId":3439019,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 3 votes
    Reply#5 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:50 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3439306,"authorDomain":"Jivatmanx"}

    Yep, the globalists, after the third time, finally got to keep their central bank, in the form of the federal Reserve. It's sad that we never learn from history.

    Hell, even Woodrow Wilson, 6 months after signing the act, realized what he had done, and wrote this:

    “I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit.We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”

    {"commentId":3439306,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"Jivatmanx"}
    • 5 votes
    Reply#6 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:15 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3439829,"authorDomain":"RuthyJObservations"}

    Jivatman,  The Internet has changed what Woodrow Wilson felt so bad about.  Now the world thinks it's their job to run our country.  Opinion and duress are however, still alive and shouting, here and abroad!  GG

    {"commentId":3439829,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"RuthyJObservations"}
    • 3 votes
    #6.1 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:57 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":3441672,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    Can one of you tell me where our gold reserves are located...and when was the last time it was actually seen...and is it still our gold...

    {"commentId":3441672,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 3 votes
    Reply#7 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:55 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3442580,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

    From my understanding, and according to the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee, the central banks (including the Fed) have lent out more than 60% of the gold in thier vaults.  This essay does a very good job of explain why they would do something so seemingly insane.

    What is left is still our gold.  But there isn't much left.

    {"commentId":3442580,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    • 2 votes
    #7.1 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:01 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3442998,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    gumwars...by lent out do you mean it is no longer in our possession but has left our shores...

    {"commentId":3442998,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 3 votes
    #7.2 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:34 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3447117,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

    Meaning, at the time it was put on loan, they practically gave it away.  The Fed (and other central banks, like the IMF) loan out gold to bullion banks and charge 1% interest.  In order for the bullion banks to make a profit they typically sell the gold and invest the profits into something that has better returns than the interest the central banks are charging them.  You read that right.  The central banks loan it out, and the bullion banks then sell the gold.

    From what I've read, China is holding most of the world's gold right now.  That will probably change as I suspect that all of the liquid holdings of China will be used in the years to come to subsidize their people in light of diminishing exports.

    {"commentId":3447117,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    • 2 votes
    #7.3 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:27 AM EDT
    {"commentId":3448492,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    gumwars...a question...if our gold is "lent out" to the bullion banks with a return of only 1%, (wow...whose looking out for our interests)...does that give them the ownership rights to sell our gold...and what if they default and we want to repossess our gold...like if i default paying my mortgage the bank kicks me out and takes my home away from me...they don't have our gold for us to repossess...what happens then...

    {"commentId":3448492,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 3 votes
    #7.4 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:45 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3449448,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

    No it doesn't.  This poses a huge risk to the gold market.  According to data at GATA, the gold market is oversold by about 400 tons.  Meaning, if calls ever came in to return borrowed gold, the price would probably head north of $2000 an ounce.  Yet another systemic threat to the financial sector.

    {"commentId":3449448,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    • 4 votes
    #7.5 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:17 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":3442041,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    and also gumwars i followed your link to the broken windows...wow am i getting a eduacation...i wonder how much the little bush boy and his friends are making from the big glaziers that got the contracts to repair and rebuild all the damage caused from the "shock and awe" fireworks showed live on tv...wow this Nation of ours has really been duped...and now look at all that bailout money they got...i am literally sitting here with my mouth hanging open and shaking my head...

    {"commentId":3442041,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 3 votes
    Reply#8 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:25 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3447129,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

    It's very matrix-like.  Would you like the blue pill or the red pill?

    {"commentId":3447129,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    • 4 votes
    #8.1 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:28 AM EDT
    {"commentId":3447239,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    gumwars...i think i already swallowed the red pill...and there is no going back...

    {"commentId":3447239,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 3 votes
    #8.2 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:41 AM EDT
    {"commentId":3447806,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

    You and me both buddy.

    {"commentId":3447806,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    • 2 votes
    #8.3 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:40 AM EDT
    {"commentId":3451120,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

    Please, Gummy-pal o mine, just give me the blue pill and we'll pretend we never saw each other, never met, don't know a dang thing about a dang thing, and aren't those Cubs/Cardinals/Bears somethin?

    {"commentId":3451120,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}
    • 3 votes
    #8.4 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:16 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3484194,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

    What I wouldn't do for one night of blissfully ignorant sleep.

    {"commentId":3484194,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    • 1 vote
    #8.5 - Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:39 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":3442944,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    and us underpaid overtaxed little bakers and cobblers feed the coffers of the bankers and all the rich glaziers...we are being sold out aren't we...and to which bidder are we being sold...and who really is responsible for all the broken windows in the twin towers...

    {"commentId":3442944,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 5 votes
    Reply#9 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:29 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3443704,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

    It may be an impossible task that the central banks have set for themselves: to both stimulate the economy and yet keep it from running out of control (leading to inflation and/or collapse). It is like trying to drive a car with one foot on the gas and the other on the brake at the same time. Maybe it cannot be done. But no matter whether the US had a central bank or not, we always suffered from a cycle of booms and busts.

    And thanks very much for the link to my modest history of the Fed. Reserve. Am mulling over another dreary article on economics, this time about deregulation. Snore-ville.

    {"commentId":3443704,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}
    • 3 votes
    Reply#10 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:28 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3447141,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

    It was a very comprehensive article MA.  Take a bow.  It deserves a lot more attention.

    {"commentId":3447141,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    • 2 votes
    #10.1 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:29 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":3445570,"authorDomain":"crashlanding1"}

    Wasn't Ron Paul saying that as president he would get rid of the Federal Reserve???

    My Opinion is that if the dollar was linked to gold again things would get better, and become a little bit more stable. It would cut the Fed's powers by a ton.

    {"commentId":3445570,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"crashlanding1"}
    • 4 votes
    Reply#11 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:35 AM EDT
    {"commentId":3454801,"authorDomain":"atm1963"}

    That is so true. Linking out monetary unit to gold would force Congress not to get caught up in unnecessary wars and bailouts against the wishes of US citizens.

    {"commentId":3454801,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"atm1963"}
    • 2 votes
    #11.1 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:26 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3467079,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

    Keeping the monetary supply honest prevents banking interests from accumulating power.  The only way we can ensure that sort of transparency enters our nation is via revolution (not unlike the colonists of old).

    {"commentId":3467079,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    • 1 vote
    #11.2 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:05 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":3446344,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    gumwars...i read the essay link and i am going to have to read it again...and regarding our physical gold that has been sold and made into jewelry or whatever...how were we paid for it...if paper money was the exchange and our paper money is no longer backed by gold  but is just federal notes don't you think we are getting the short end of the stick...and who exactly authorizes our physical gold to be sold...the president, the treasury man or the fed bank man...it sounds like our gold is being stolen not sold...am i misunderstanding something...and also how come we can't have a independent audit and physical inventory done on our physical gold...

    {"commentId":3446344,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 3 votes
    Reply#12 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:24 AM EDT
    {"commentId":3451178,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

    Have read assurances in years past that folks, the gold in Ft. Knox is just fine, not to worry about a thang. They maybe show a picture or something like that, but you're never sure just when that pic or video was shot. And they cannot just open it up to every press person who asks, can they? -- they'd never get their work done. So I dunno whether we will get another public assurance from the govt people sometime soon. Betcha buck the govt does feel obliged to make a show of gold yet again, tho, given the market gyrations lately.

    {"commentId":3451178,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}
    • 2 votes
    #12.1 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:21 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":3464833,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    gumwars...what would happen if most nations (for whatever reason) quit taking our fed notes and wanted euros...would we have to use the euro in our country...

    {"commentId":3464833,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#13 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:44 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3467113,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

    If the dollar unpegged it would destroy our nation's economy.  Several countries (China, Japan, and Russia) hold incredible amounts of USD reserves.  If the reserve note was worthless (or falling rapidly in value) these holders of US debt would unload on the market causing the dollar to hyperinflate, officially wrecking our nation (and most of the world in the process).  Can you say Zimbabwae?   

    {"commentId":3467113,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    • 1 vote
    #13.1 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:08 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3469860,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    gumwars...zimbabwae...i see says the blind man...what i don't understand is our national debt keeps getting higher and higher...there is no way in the world we can pay it off...what is the point at which it will not go any higher...and what mechanism freezes it...robs it of it's power...

    {"commentId":3469860,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 3 votes
    #13.2 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:02 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3484303,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

    Well, that's something that we might actually see.  Any institution, be it a corporation, state, or nation, is reviewed by its peers in it's capability to repay debt.  If it is determined, by its peers or an entity to that purpose (such as Moody's) that they may not honor their obligations or default, then their debt is downgraded.  US Government debt is the highest rated debt instrument on the planet.  It holds a rating higer than AAA (which is like solid gold).  If our nation loses that rating it becomes much harder to borrow as potential investors will refuse to purchase future debt. 

    Look carefully in the news, if you see any nation have a failed bond auction, watch out.  They are at the doorstep of bankruptcy.  That goes for the US too.

    {"commentId":3484303,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    • 2 votes
    #13.3 - Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:47 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3645633,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    gumwars...do you think in those G-meetings bush is being threatened with "we might decide to no longer purchase your debt, should you decide to not go along with us"...

    {"commentId":3645633,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 2 votes
    #13.4 - Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:52 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":3556143,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    gumwars...please read this article when you have the time...please tell me if it is accurate...

    http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6826.html 

    thanks...

    {"commentId":3556143,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#14 - Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:10 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3597064,"authorDomain":"gumwars"}

    A very colorful read, kakael.  Sorry for the pause before my reply, I wanted to be sure that I devoted a good chunk of time digesting your recommendation.

    Jim Willie CB is a research analyst for hire, and a gold advocate.  Not that I would question his perspective, but, I would take that into consideration when reading his work.  He gets paid to bring people onboard at 321-Gold, and this is his livelihood. 

    I do think some of this has the ring of fantasy conspiracy theory written on it, one that a diligent application of Occum's Razor would do well to find faults in.  I would not, however, completely dismiss it either.

    The truth, as with most things, typically falls between what both sides claim as the official story.  I do agree that large portions of our government (and quasi-government), namely the SEC, US Treasury, Federal Reserve, HUD, FHA, DoD, several members of Congress, and the DoJ have been compromised by corporate interests.  The topic of regulatory capture is not unknown to our government and it appears we are victim to it again, just on a much larger scale than before.

    Do I think that the financial underpinnings of our nation are coming apart?  Absolutely.  Jim's perspective on the damage to the bond markets, the apparent disconnect between physical gold and paper gold, and how the bailout did nothing to correct any of the fundamentals causing this havoc, is spot on.

    All in all, it does hold merit.  The tone is one that a conservative would dismiss as being to tinfoil helmet paranoid, but it does hit it out of the park on possible future movements concerning the indexes and commodities.

    Good find, you should seed it.

    {"commentId":3597064,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"gumwars"}
    • 2 votes
    #14.1 - Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:47 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3598567,"authorDomain":"kakael"}

    thank you very much gumwars for your time and response...nearing had already seeded it today so i posted your response over there... 

    {"commentId":3598567,"threadId":"386089","contentId":"1973407","authorDomain":"kakael"}
    • 2 votes
    #14.2 - Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:26 PM EDT
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